Spoilers below.
When it came to joining the cast of House of the Dragon, what daunted Gayle Rankin wasn’t just the scale of the franchise or the fervor of its fans—it was also the sheer talent of her new co-stars.
“I was really nervous and, in the best way, really intimidated because after watching the first season of the show, I was like, ‘Oh, wow. These are serious actors,’” says the Juilliard grad, citing stage legends like Eve Best (Rhaenys Targaryen) and Sir Simon Russell Beale (Simon Strong), who joined in season 2. “It’s just a massive ensemble with Liv [Olivia Cooke] and Emma [D’Arcy] at the center, which is just really so exciting to me,” Rankin adds.
But the nerves “dissipated very quickly” during rehearsals and table reads as she got to know her new colleagues, including her frequent scene partner Matt Smith and his dog, Bobby, who he’d sometimes bring to set. “Then I fell in love with all the actors,” Rankin says. Cooke, D’Arcy, Phia Saban, Bethany Antonia, Phoebe Campbell, and Sonoya Mizuno are just a few names she calls out. “We all became a little bit of a gang and would go out and go dancing....We had a good time.” Some of them have even come out to watch Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club on Broadway, in which Rankin currently stars as Sally Bowles.
But Rankin’s own resume is quite intimidating, too. The Scottish actress has played wrestler Sheila the She-Wolf in Netflix’s GLOW, Emily Dodson in Perry Mason, Queen Victoria in The Greatest Showman, and drummer Ali van der Wolff in Her Smell. Plus, her performance as Sally earned her a Tony nomination. (This isn’t her first Cabaret either; she also starred in the Broadway production 10 years ago as Fräulein Kost.) She’s more than equipped to handle a conundrum like Alys Rivers on House of the Dragon, a mysterious healer in the haunted castle of Harrenhal, a possible witch, and potential powerful ally.
After she exits the Kit Kat Club in September, Rankin is looking forward to vacationing in Greece and the Amalfi Coast, and other exciting “life things.” But most of all, she’ll “get my ass stuck into some more work,” she says. “I fucking love working.” Time will tell whether any of that work includes future seasons of House of the Dragon.
Below, Rankin walks ELLE.com through Alys Rivers’ powers, being drawn to “misrepresented” characters, and the outcry around Cabaret at the Kit Kat Club’s performance at the Tony Awards.
It must be so interesting inhabiting a character like Alys, who is very sparsely featured in the book, Fire & Blood—at least in the parts covered in the show so far. What is it like as an actor to build a character based off of limited information?
It’s really fun and a little intimidating because the fandom around these books and this enterprise is so strong and that’s so amazing, but you want to build something that people can relate to and enjoy hand in hand with the book. Because the truth is that you’re absolutely right, there’s hearsay and there’s barely mention of her sometimes. She’s a presence and she becomes this presence that grows and builds throughout the book. Then by the end of the book, she has quite a powerful position in the world and in the story. It’s been interesting to build backwards too. To be like, “Okay, so if we were to ever end up here, what would get this place from A to B?” It’s been so fun, and there’s so much more to go. There’s so much to build.
How did you interpret or attempt to define her powers? Is it magic? Is it psychic?
I like to think of her powers as quite elusive, because that’s probably what they are to her too. As much as she’s aware of what they are, I think they change. She’s powerful in many different ways. I think that she has tactile power; we see her in episode four building some drink for Daemon, which she also tastes herself, which is really interesting.
I think she is actually a healer. I think she works as a woods witch, which I would understand as more of a healer and a maester. It’s interesting how we look at what powers are. It’s like, Well, medicine is power. Surgeons have powers. But I also think that she is prophetic. I really believe that, and that’s been talked about a lot. I think there is truth to that, but what I think is a bit of a mystery both to the audience, hopefully, and to her, is how? Where? When? Why? How much of the world can she see?
I think Alys and Daemon’s dynamic is really interesting. She seems fascinated by him, but also has him wrapped around her finger. She can play around with his emotions. What do you think she wants from him? What does she find interesting about him? Why does she want to help him too?
It’s so funny when you were describing her, I was like, “Oh, yeah. The qualities that any good woman should have.”
Exactly. There’s nothing wrong with her.
No, no, no, no. I know. I was just like, “Wow, she sounds great.” Why does she want to help him? What we discovered really early on is that there’s something inside of this dynamic in this relationship...there’s something for Alys in it. It’s not just one-sided, I think. We had to really figure that out, because if you are someone who’s prophetic and who knows [the future], why bother?
Why take on this man, who is extremely powerful and dangerous and volatile and also extraordinary? I think [with] Alys, it’s almost as if she’s like a 12th-wave feminist or something. She is able to look at the masculine and embrace it in a complex and hopefully forward-moving way. A way to get to “the other” and reach them. I think that’s really cool whilst also getting something for herself too. I think she’s really interested in that.
She’s interested in progress, I think, for herself, for the realm....Can you imagine if we could see the future, and what would you do with that information? I don’t know if she’s trying to change it, and that’s really up to the audience. I’ve made decisions inside of my work, but I think why she wants to help him is that she also sees parts of herself in him. A loneliness. A stubbornness. A lostness. I don’t know what to do with my power. I don’t know what to do with my feelings. There’s a kinship there, which I think is really shocking and surprising.
So, her involvement with Grover Tully’s passing in episode 6: Do we think she’s maybe also trying to do something for herself there? Like, “I helped you. Will you help me?”
That just goes to the age-old question, “Is there a selfless act?” Psychologists would probably say, “No, there’s not.” What is in it for Alys? I think it’s going to be interesting to see how that plays out. I think that’s what we’ve been trying to build is, what’s in it for this person?
You’ve played roles like Alys, Sally Bowles, and Sheila from GLOW—what is it about these women that drew you in? What speaks to you when you’re considering a role?
In some ways, and not to sound really cheesy, but these roles absolutely found me. They found me where I’m at. It’s really an interesting marker to see the evolution of yourself as a person and as an artist and how they coincide. But I think for me, there is a through line about playing women and characters who feel misrepresented or misunderstood inside of culture or society, and me feeling a desire to go in there and root around and try to expose what I can to move that forward.
There’s so much iconography around Sally Bowles, and so many people have a very personal fervent claim on who she is and a very strong idea about her morality and why she does what she does, just everything. I have so many questions about that. I’m fascinated by why people assume that they can do that, that they can claim someone’s identity. I’m like, “I’m just throwing my hat in the ring. My version.”
Speaking of Sally, what were some misconceptions that you had to face or challenge with your interpretation of the character?
I don’t read reviews, so I don’t have a ton of information from the outside world of the general people’s opinion. I’ve gotten so much positive feedback from young women and people who have seen this show who really feel like this version of Sally Bowles is really speaking to them in their war cry. The war cry of, “I would like to be heard. I would like to be seen for my full, 360-degree self.” I think [the role] has been misinterpreted in ways, though, as unskilled or angry. It’s just interesting. I’m like, “Why are we so afraid of female anger?” I don’t think someone would necessarily go to a David Mamet play and be like, “They were just really angry.” It’s like, “Well, of course they were angry in a David Mamet play!”
There’s a size to my Sally, and there’s an appetite to her that people have a lot of feelings about. I find that to be amazing, because I’m all for people having opinions, especially about art. But I think it can feel painful, because a part of what I feel like I’m exploring is allowing Sally to really live without packaging her up. I think packaging her up in other versions [of the character] is a really beautiful, interesting, fascinating, and true way of doing it. In our version, it’s far more unfolded. It’s really interesting to watch people experience that and how people experience women unfolded, undone. I don’t mean undone as broken or wounded or crazed; I mean undone just [from] themselves, and so that can be challenging. I really have to be her and not me.
You said you’re not really reading reviews, but did you catch wind of the reactions to the Cabaret performance at the Tonys this year? There were some people who didn’t quite understand the context. How did you respond to that?
I chose to not read that stuff. There was a particular article I think that was actually quite powerful. It is pretty destructive and pretty hurtful. It definitely opened my eyes more to understand the power of media. What’s been amazing about it is that our show is totally thriving and people love the show and love the performances, and we feel really strong and really excited. The article hasn’t had any effect on our show in any way, but I think it leaves a bad taste in your mouth about people who use their platform to truly, honestly, just to be nasty. It’s like, “Cool. Okay. I guess you didn’t like it.”
Again, I don’t really know the details, so I can’t really speak to it, but it’s just disappointing. I found it to be immature in terms of discussing art. I do. I think there is a conversation about, like, “It’s not that we didn’t understand the production, we just didn’t like it.” Again, fair. Art is subjective, but there’s a discussion about it, and then there’s just being immature and childish about it.
It’s interesting to see how reactions online can range from that to the overwhelming support for House of the Dragon. Before your first episode, I saw tweets that were like, “It’s Alys Rivers night!” and people were so excited for you to appear.
It’s like, [gestures her hand up and down like a wave].
Totally up and down.
It’s been an extreme time. It’s been really extreme. I’ve been so lucky to have amazing people around me and also Jenny Tversky [Rankin’s publicist] being at the absolute helm of that to remind me what this is about. I have to really be real. I was worried that it was going to really negatively affect me, but actually, I’m so happy—the happiest I’ve ever been. I feel stronger, truly, than I ever, ever have been. It’s been hard-won, but a little bit through the fire in some ways over this period of time.
Your last performance in Cabaret is in September. What are you going to miss about Sally?
I truly think about it every day, especially now because I can see the end. Really, this has been the hardest job of my life. It’s taken everything I have. It’s been really hard. Only over the past few weeks have I really gotten to be like, “I love doing it.” I feel like I’m reclaiming it after a lot of really difficult weeks of feeling like I couldn’t [go on] for so many different reasons. But I’m going to miss the people. I’m going to miss Eddie and Ato and the Kit Kats and being at the theater and my dresser, Emma—I was at her wedding 10 years ago. She was my dresser on the first version of Cabaret that I did. It’s crazy. This is your family. And I’m going to miss Sally fucking Bowles. She’s just given me so much.
Has the role of Sally changed what you’re looking for in your future projects?
Oh, yeah. Definitely. I don’t know if I’ve totally figured out yet what that means, but I don’t think it could have not. I feel so lucky to be the leading lady. That’s newer for me—newer in my more public professional life; I’ve played leading roles before. But I definitely love a big meal, and I think my body and my artistry are always hungry for that. It’s not ever about the size of the role for me. It’s about the journey of the character, and so I think it’s about looking for that journey and what is that character and God help us all for the next one. [Laughs] But it will be exciting, whatever it is.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
Styled by Karen Clarkson; hair by David von Cannon; makeup by Samantha Lau.
